Vortex00 so yesterday the first person fighting aspect of the umcc game was fleshed out a bit between me and Jo
here are my notes from the discussion.
by the way the opponent types Maiko can fight would be other students (boxing club), perverts, rapists, sentinels and possibly agents. It was agreed that usually the rapists are actually pretty hard fights. Not a situation you want to get yourself into. (not early on at least). Boxing club fights are progressive and timed rounds.
playable character actions (Maiko)
punch – attacks opponent
charge punch – a more powerful attack (maybe some effect added like stun/drain, etc with hairpin power)
push – pushes the opponent away from you if they are in close range
guard – guards against opponent attacks
(laser blast? – like from umV2? would be lulz throwback to old game)
http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/480060
(and various hairpin passives that can be unlocked)
opponent actions
punch
charge punch
push
guard
grope – jiggle Maiko boobs around (exclusive to rapists and perverts)
AI (enemy Ai will often have some mechanic to watch out for.)
Ai was described to me as a series of randomized patterns, nothing too obvious to learn.
balanced – (normal ai, no special mechanic to watch out for)
aggressive – (flurry punches and gets tired leaving a opening)
perverted – (tries to grab player boobs / easily distracted)
defensive – (blocks almost everything, opening available only after they attack)
chaotic – (random of above AI)
body types
normal – (nothing special)
athletic – (aka “quick” speeds up Ai patterns)
strong – (can damage through a guard (reduced), resistant to being pushed)
busty – (quits after being pushed in boobs too much, doesn’t punch a lot because boob jiggle hurts them)
weak – (easily pushed, some of their attacks do no damage or flails/misses)
opponents will be a mix and match some combination of Ai and body type.
Friends
Maiko can have friends with her as you know so here is how that can work. At least for far.
two basic friend types when in non-boxing club combat situations.
– one that will run to get help (starting a timer until help arrives like a GemCo agent or Teacher)
– one that will stay and help fight.
since you can only 2 vs 1 outside the school boxing club setting I suggested having he guy turned around at the start of the fight and all aggro is on the friend that says to help fight allowing Maiko to get in some punched from the back. Basically anyone but Joiry, Jinru, or David would eventually lose depending on who you are fighting. For those want want to be safe from fighting have one of those characters with Maiko.
when friend that leaves to go get help the opponent will run off before the timer hits zero. So maybe you need to stun them or something to get them caught.
probably some quests will be to get certain npcs caught. (might be good chance to introduce members from Tempo’s gang from DoE for when in the inner city)
opinions and suggestions to the mechanics listed are welcome
About Author
I’m liking the variations in ai – routine and style that is. Are these going to be clearly visible at the start of the fight or will you have to work it out as the fight goes on?? both are interesting paths.
Hmm well ideally would be able to look at a person and see the body type. Or just assume if from the character personality. Someone like Chris might be weak/defensive while it might be safe to assume Joiry or David could be muscular/aggressive.
I would assume you would have to figure out the Ai but I don’t think it would take long too after testing the water a bit with a few punches. if they are moving around a lot quickly and blocking all your punches, you would know that you are dealing with a “athletic/defensive” Ai. And if they start wailing on you when you can’t get any attacks in it is safe to assume you dealing with a aggressive Ai.
what could be even more interesting is the concept of moods I talked about earlier. That could affect what Ai they have.
Maybe you can’t beat David for example because he is aggressive/muscular. but if you grope yourself or something and change his mood, then for the next fight he would be perverted/muscular. Or something from the main story causes his behavior to be different for a while. Of if he has high relation to Maiko he wont really take her seriously in boxing club and just run a normal Ai.
Maybe they can stay stuff at the start of fight that would give a clue as to what Ai they are running. But I would be more leaning towards just figuring it out at the start by seeing what you can and can’t do to them easily.
Cool and thanks for the quick response 🙂
Sounds interesting enough being in FPV. Energy Blast ha I remember that attack in UM V2. But it was only in the story plot of that old flash.
Maybe these FPV might give you some ideas.
http://www.flashsandy.org/cats/sports/bbhood-vs-bin-laden-online-game.html
http://www.flashsandy.org/cats/sports/bbhood-vs-kurt-angle-online-game.html
Yeah I’m taking it way back. LOL
Well since her powers is energy blast and making sharp daggers and a sword. The more you level up the better option of to select a fight style. You know her 2 daggers so punch will be replace by 2x slash and charge punch replace by slash wave using her sword.
Or you can give her the ability to equip change from punching to daggers or her sword. Unless you plan on removing her other ability to keep it simple. It’s your call.
Yeah I want to bring back the old school blast heh. I thought about her daggers but I think I will save the daggers for later. Those involve Donavik somehow I am just not totally sure just yet. But I am currently thinking it is after she actually meets him. Probably something like how Tasha can pull weapons out of Donavik’s portal. Maiko can create portals anywhere relatively close to her and those weapon just launch out of the portal at a high speed, then vanish back into one. But that will be later. Seems a bit more DoE’ish when in that game people get killed and stabbed and stuff heh. Maybe Donavik already is suspicious of some effect he might have on her and that is why he avoids meeting her in UMCC. Perhaps something he noticed when he saw her dead back in DoE. That big sword is Tasha’s sword she pulled from the portal in Semitix but I am still unsure how she gets it. At this moment in the story Tasha would still have it thoguh.
That Osama game is completely terrible these days lol. I’m not sure what positive thing I can even take from that. It was good during it’s time thoguh I would imagine. I wanted to be a bit more conscious of the mouse and keyboard this time around. I noticed you click the mouse to navigate text and the start the game but all of the fight was keyboard. I am still going to try to make the touch screen enabled if i can but well see how it goes. for now I just want to get something working.
I remember her having the swords Joe commented, but i can only see it making sense if the other characters have weapons too. I think Luma had weapons too earlier?
If not, she would be too overpowered and i dont know about you guys, but if i were a student, i wouldnt try to fight a girl with a sword, lol.
About the charge punches and such, those are nice, it could have a pink flash when you punch or something, showing she is using khalei power. Maybe a “special” bar who depletes if you use it, not to abuse it too much. Or she gets tired if using much too, like little mac in punch out. Thats a nice game to get tips from. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_Iv06FLpJ8&list=PLHmEgg9ci_8BHXIF9RqlTzdPPMKxBocnE
The fighting system seems pretty solid and fun to play. I am happy to see how you guys are working, its going pretty good 🙂
I want to talk about some ideas we discussed before, some of these are over the top, lol. But its some brainstorming.
One idea we discussed too was the ability to tear clothing. I will only discuss what i think about it. There is grope already, which is nice, but the perverts could try and take your shirt, bra and such over time, like it was their charged punch. Maybe taking certain skills would do clothing damage? Destroying the clothing over time. Maiko’s and the enemies too (if she uses her charged punches on them, that would be a side effect of her power).
The same way your friends can call for help, there could be a counter for when the person is naked and after some time she is too ashamed and runs to hide itself or something. They would say “You will pay for making this too me! I will get you!”
Certain characters would cover themselves if topless, making them slower to hit you, the same for their bellow body parts. Others wouldnt care at all to be naked, but as the counter goes, people would appear to watch the fight. Maybe a text bubble? (“Hey everyone, there is a fight happening there, let’s watch it!!”) Then you see people cheering (“Go Blondie!” “Catfight!”) As they lose clothing (“Woah, look at those breasts”) and so on. If Kyle is with you, he could start taking pictures if its a girl fight, instead of helping at all. “I know you can do it Maiko, i will just stay here and get a few shoots” *grin*
Chris could use sentinels. If its Lynn, her bodyguard could be a support or something, blocking some attacks. Tsugo could suggest paying to end the fight. Maybe its too complex, but i find it dynamic, heh. What do you think?
punchout is good but it seems way to too easy to read the opponent and predict moves. I don’t think that guy even took any damage at all except once and just knew the patterns. Even when he did, hes was like oh well no big deal I can do this. The whole video was a completely casual, non-threatening fight, not worried about losing at all. And Little mac never got tired or had any physical limitations on doing that street fighter Ryu punch lol. I would like the player to not be able to be that relaxed in fights at least not until you are pretty highly leveled in combat stats.
I like how you describe it better where she has limits.
Like in Dark Winter when Maiko used too much Khalei the hairpin exploded out energy. Maybe something like that can be used here. Also I was seeing whether or not I want to apply the busty body type to Maiko since she qualifies for that. But maybe a certain type of shirt/top would negate the effects. But then again kind of the point of the game is deal with being Maiko, both the good and the bad.
I actually initially had cloth tearing in there but I took it out. I don’t know it seems too.. wacky? I had it in a old fighting system minigame, but in that one they had bladed weapons, so you could make the argument that the close were getting torn and when you grab it to rip it off it easily comes off. Maybe you can daze the person, and allows you to remove/unbutton/pull or switch to alternate clothing styles. kind of like that Pattie Gym and alternate gym style from the MovieClip example post.
hmm I never thought about kicking. That almost seems too cheap heh. Actually i don’t think I have had kicking in any fighting game… I think it was in a earlier version of DoE and part of Tempo’s combo.
I like the idea of people crowding around during the fight. Lynn bodyguard would probably one shot most random non-student bummy people. But probably would only disable any students. Yeah like those ideas. Chris with sentinels and Tsugo trying to pay people off before a fight happens. Those ideas are a lot more unique to each person like how it should be. Maybe even Kyle has some high powered camera flash support ability that goes off every so often.
Yeah, that fight is really easy, but its like a tutorial fight, heh. The game gets really hard as you play, but its mostly knowing your enemies attacks and patterns and you are ok to go, heh. The special punches are made with the stars you get by hitting the enemy when the screen flashes in yellow and if you keep punching but the blocks, you lose heart points, if they reach 0, he gets tired and you have to dodge a punch to recover 🙂 The punches get even stronger with more stars, but if you get hit once, you lose all them.
I like how you put it, you are Maiko, be it good or bad. With perverts stalking you and her body type should influence in the gameplay, its a weakness, but as you said, you can giggle your boobs to change some enemies behavior, thats a pro!
I dont know what to do with her limitations though, i though only on getting tired or having problems to evade, having to recover some of her breathing or something.
The clothing ripping could be wacky, thats true. But we have funny boob jiggling too, heh. But you do have a point.
Still, I dont know, i feel like it could work with the ideas you said. Maybe as a special feature, for example, there could be a book Maiko buys at the bookstore, its a self defense book, so she learn the technic. You have a bar who raises as you fight, when its full and the enemy has the guard down, you use it and if you land the move, she grabs the person shirt and rip it open (the shirts have buttons, so its not that hard). You keep fighting and the enemy is now with a variation of the shirt (open), if you raise the bar again, you can pull the shirt off (it works for men and women). Guys like Chris would get embarrassed about that, so the shame counter would start for them. With girls you can go further taking the bra off, pulling the skirt (pants cant be taken like that), i think you would have to stop there, i dont know if she could pull a pantie hard enough to take it off. (Maybe in a fight at the beach, you and the enemy would be using bottom parts that can come off easily there).
Bikini fights at the beach could happen if you have bad costumers in that food stall where Maiko is would work at with Lynn. Maybe pervert costumers or some girls envy on how Maiko gets attention at her job (there would be slutty girls).
Kicking is pretty interesting to think about, if you are at boxing competitions, its prohibited to kick, making you get disqualified. But well, street rules man, you can kick people at fights, maybe even land a critical hit and kick some guys balls, lol.
The crowds can be fun, with cheering, some people getting the phones to record the fight and so on.
I like how every support can be useful depending of their traits, if you want to skip fights, get tsugo. Want to be op? Bring Lynn and her body guard. I dont know much about other characters though. Dont know how Joey would react in a fight, for example or Amber. Would Amber just cry and be motionless?
Those Kyle pics he takes during fights i suggested can be useful now with your idea, he is just taking pics for himself, but it the flashes can stun during the fight. But that can be a double edged sword, maybe Maiko can get dizzy from the flashes too.
I like to discuss the games, i get hyped with the ideas, lol
I like to discuss also but I also have to keep in mind to keep it in the boundaries of something that is not too much work to do heh. Yeah so losing a “heart” or something when you hit someone who is blocking is good. From that video it seems like they barely even blocked and he could have just button mashed the entire fight. Dodging to recover is ify. I almost want to have no recover unless in the boxing club between rounds. But in the street if you run out of endurance or something you are screwed heh. I just want to removed that chilled and laid back “oh it is still fine” atmosphere and replace it with “oh shit wtf am I going to do” if you actually mess up pretty bad.
Yeah, thats true man, sorry, got hyped there with all the ideas, heh. I wanted to see the clothing damage system on the game, but if it is too much work, then thats ok. Must keep things simple, lots of projects at the same time, heh.
Hmm, about the recovers, maybe there could be a drink you buy at the mall, a energy drink or something that gives you more hearts at fights, just like coffee, or it even can be coffee. If they are going to be as dangerous and interactive as they seem, they will be fun even being hard, hah.
Having a vague piece of dialogue sounds like a good idea, assuming the perverts, rapists and agents are randomised. Like a female agent that has a perverted AI might think to herself ‘Are her tits bigger than mine?’
Also if losing to the pervert and rapists results in a sex scene, will the David fight be able to happen more than once again? I liked it when it worked. I only ask because with the 2v1 you could add another David and Joiry scene like in the gym. If you have Joiry with you and lose to David he could join in, maybe have a threesome or take turns.
Other than that it seems well thought out. I look forward to it.
You would be able to tell in nearly, if not all all cases. Especially a agent. It would be pretty obvious if you are fighting a agent or not. They all have glowing goggles or sunglasses. And if one of the first things she did was jiggle Maiko’s boobs, or started moving faster then normal, or flurry punch you, then you would have a pretty solid idea about what you are dealing with. If I have them saying anything ti will be before the fight even happens.
Yeah even though a bit controversial, the David scene was something I wanted to have in there as it was happening multiple times. It was just too buggy to bother with it. It probably will be just random non-student people this time around though but I am not sure on that. Thing can easily change in that area. I wanted to expand the city a bit more and have multiple areas in the city where there are more dangers like that lurking around from random people.
That unique situation with David and Joiry is good. I will see about getting that in once the basic stuff is worked out. Maybe depends on relationship or mood or something. But overall he seems the type to only hang around Maiko if sh is giving up the goods. maybe above with jccq’s idea where people crow around. well if you fight off some rapist or pervert and he shows up in the crowd. well you better not loose or it wont be pleasant lol. I think it might be good and part of a new “david mechanic” to have him show up at times right after fighting a rapist outside so he can have a easier time beating Maiko and taking advantage.
What I meant by randomised was more about their physical appearence (skin, hair, eyes) and AI, so its not a matter of ‘oh I recognise this guy, he’s agent 2 and he’s aggressive’. Each fight would be unique and the dialogue would just be a little hint. Although I suppose it would be kind of pointless if you are planning on having the flurry of punches and groping being like a special ability for the AI.
I’m not sure the rapist is going to want a crowd, but the idea sounds pretty good for fights around the school and vs Luma, maybe the mall aswell.
Maybe you could only be raped if you lost to him before attracting a crowd. Having a crowd could be good or bad. Losing to him before would me him drag you to some place and them raping you.
depends on the crowd perhaps. certain types of people hangout in certain areas.
yeah those guys will be random to some degree as far as eye color and such. But you could still easily identify what you are against. Maybe some say stuff and some don’t. Or maybe Maiko can pick up a book that teaches her how to identify fighting styles by observation. Then it will just we visible what fighting style have have.
Hmm, the books are a good idea, makes the bookstore more useful. There could be a collection of books about fighting, for new moves and this identification skill.
About the crowds, could be normal people and when entering bad neighborhoods you find some tough shit bad guys, so it makes sense that walking that part, if you loose to some dude and other bad guys are watching, he will rape you and the others might join.
well right now we seem to be at a impasse on working out just basic punching lol. I want all the punching one one key. tap the key to punch and if you repeat pressing the key she will alternate a few punches. and if you hold it she will hold her arm back and swing when you let go.
But Jo wants to do one key for left arm and one for the right arm.
any thoughts on this ?
Did you play the sim girls fighting system?
I think just one button is ok, there you have buttons for each part of the body, head, torso and legs
I haven’t played that game in so long I forgot mostly everything about it. but clicking a button to attack as you describe seems different from here.
Did they have animations to support people getting hit in those specific locations ? whatever animations are needed would basically be multiplied by each character. times the number of outfits and alternate outfits combined.
Yeah, its really different. I am back from work so I can explain it better. You had to aim to the body part you wanted to hit with your mouse. Then, to hit the parts you had buttons, Q for Head, A for torso and Z for legs. If you aimed the head and pressed the A or Z buttons, nothing happened, it was annoying… You had special powers too, it used you “mana” to attack, they were a shoryuken at the head W button, hadouken on the torso S button and tatsumaki senpuu kyaku with X button. All Street Fighter Ryu’s moves. But I used to get all confused with the buttons, too many buttons, and they had specific places to use, plus D to defend…
The animations were all the same whenever you hit the enemy, and a animation for falling if you hit the legs. And they used the same clothes always.
For my only one button is ok, and she could use right, left, right, left. But… if you choose two buttons, one for each arm, you could make the enemy defend or evade depending the side you choose to attack (Punch Out all over again). You could make specific combinations of attacks to trigger the special moves. For example, right, left, right, right (Maiko lands a hook at the end). The old punch out for Snes had a similar system. Here are them:
There are eight punches to use, each with varying speed and strength.
Left jab – Press Y while holding Up on the Control Pad. The quickest,
but very weak.
Left body blow – Press Y. Slower than the left jab, but stronger.
Right jab – Press B while holding Up. Slower and stronger than the
left body blow.
Right body blow – Press B. Slow, but pretty strong.
The next four punches require your Power Meter to be full; otherwise,
you can’t use them. These are known as Knock Out Punches.
Hook – Press A. A left-to-right body blow. Takes some time to
execute, but it’s strong.
Uppercut – Press A while holding Up. A right-to-left hit to the face.
takes longer to execute than the hook, but stronger.
This is the strongest punch in the game.
Rapid hook – Press A twice. You’ll keep using weak and rapid hooks
until the opponent blocks or is knocked down.
Rapid uppercut – Press A twice while holding Up. You’ll keep using
weak and rapid uppercuts until the opponent
blocks or is knocked down.
The problem to having different reactions, is like you said, more animations for each character and clothes…
@jccq89
this waaay to complex I feel. the fight game this time around should be simple and feel right and be able to be easily understood from the very start. You may not know all the moves but you aren’t sitting there going wtf? with like 12 different buttons to press.
don’t even need targets areas, or attack up or down, left and right and stuff imo.
should just be simple. and hairpin should be activated just like in umcc. not with a unique button for different abilities.
hairpin not active:
mouse/A – punch
mouse/A (hold) – strong punch (at max level can stun maybe or something)
mouse/A (repeat) – multiple punches randomly.
space – guard/block
D – push away (when they are close to you. % chance successful)
S – grab/strip (only when they are out of energy or stunned, etc.)
W (hold) – move close to them (release to move back to starting position)
with hairpin active:
(this assuming max level power! this stuff will be gradually learned but this is the end result. One button to toggle activation of it like in UMCC)
passive – they loose energy and life gradually slowly. (maybe earned thoguh some hard boss fight but it fits her Khalei since it curses/disables/drain people)
passive – negates busty effects (being pushed doesn’t damage you)
space – more damage reduction from guarding (uses magic)
D – successful pushes drain opponents energy. (uses magic)
D (hold) – laser blast (uses high amount of magic but high damage, maybe clears crowds also? they all run away)
side effect – when too much magic is used her Khalei explodes damaging her severely like in dark winter.
this with the other stuff mentioned here is good imho. thoughts ?
@Vortex00
Yes, all those buttons will get confusing… I think you got everything sorted with this list. I am glad it has all the suggestions on it and you said there is more from the supports too. A simple fighting system is good. Maybe even use it on DoE later? But with Donavik powers instead of the hair pin.
The laser makes sense to scare everybody, they would go all “oh shit, whats happening?” and run away, since they dont know whats her hairpin is all about.
About the side effect, how would it work? I understand its important to have. But would it happen if you have your full bar for too much time and dont use it (to release the charged power, so it overcharges and damages you). Or from using more than once per fight. Or even, the bar could have different levels of charges (like most fighting games, maybe till lvl 3) using more than one level at once makes it damage you? What do you think?
@jccq89
was thinking some more environmental and less GUI. you see purple glowing dots or something appear on the screen. when there is a full 10 of them she goes kaboom. if you don’t use it they go away over time. and resets after each fight.
http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/522320
check out scene 7 how they appear and swirl chaotically in front of her face before it explodes
@Vortex00
That can work, yes. But with that explosion, wow. You might pass out from it and lose the fight with that.
@jccq89
yes that is exactly the point lol. So you can’t use it the entire fight. Plus that is how Saboteur Khalei works. For example, if Maiko had Khalei armor (aka sentinel gear) like Bri, then she’d be just fine.
just played the simgirls fight system.
NOPE NOPE and NOPE.
Hahaha, yep, thats what i explained on my above post. Its annoying 😛
alright so aiming at a location and having to press a corresponding key specific to that location is a redundancy I don’t want. I think perhaps aiming at head or body and even the groin could be possible by just clicking. click the same button, because the complexity is in targeting areas. then i can have just certain things change like the head just the face will change, groin and waist he/she might hold them selves in that area. and yeah hitting in groin in boxing club disqualifies you.
So instead of using a button, you would click and depending the area she will attack differently? With that you can use the keyboard to dodging, defend and maybe special attacks. Press button and click, special.
@jccq89 @justjoe2k
I got Jo’s idea for the how he envisioned the fight system. I am looking for feedback before I even mention anything about this.
however you have my idea for it from what I posted earlier. Anyone can feel free to leave feedback reply.
Jo
Well, it’s really simpler then you might think
Personally I say no pushing it seems reduntant
to me
when the they grope you just like mash a or something till they let go
SO…
You got Health and Stamina
Getting hit lowers health, Punching of block a hit lowers stamina.
No stamina, you’ll be incapacitaed for a bit.
but regain full stamina.
You have a left punch button and a right punch button and a gaurd button.
That’s it
Well, not a 100% on lasers and stuff….
when block a hit just as they punch lands you can counter attack which will stun the oppnent.
If you punch the right as they go to punch on the side with their rasied hand the take more damage but it counts as normal.
BTW the rule apply both ways
punching take stamina, but more then gaurding
so it’s possible to wait for the oppenent to be to tired to attack
however a charged punch breaks through a guard but is obviously slower and easy to stop
looking back to see if I missed something
Also while stunned you have to try and recover by mashing a button or something but recovering forces back the oppnent.
I think that’s it.
lasers…
Idk
Hmm, I see he is not too fond of the laser idea. But it can be really simple too, just making the screen blink in pink a little, the indicators for using it too much, and instead of punching, you shoot lasers with the same button.
I dont know about button mashing, its ok for me, but stressing for some people. But i can see it working no problem.
The system of attacking before they land a attack is just like punch out too, so i am ok with it.
The laser thing if more to show some development on the khalei pins and Maiko in general, its a important part of the story and i think it should play a big part on this.
I dont know if the pushing he mentioned before is the pushing system? I didnt see anything about the little dash you can do, dodging or the ability to strip people.
all i can see is. Boxing points increasing damage, swimming increasing the rate she recovers her breath, and tracking increasing how many heart points she loses before she gets tired.
Sounds interesting, pushing will be when you tab the button to get the group off you. She push them away knocking them back. Can knock all of them far away from you if use with her energy.
A suggestion for another AI, “Trained” so the opponent would be skilled in martial arts, or professional boxing or something. It should be a rare fight but non the less I think it would be interesting.
what does that really mean thoguh ? what mechanics does it have ? what are the strengths and weaknesses of that AI ?